Talk:James Eastland/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Old comments

I'm not fluent in wiki, but would someone please add a story that is told in the opening (?) chapter of the book "This Little Light of Mine: the Life of Fannie Lou Hamer," by Kay Mills. As I remember it, the story is that shortly before Eastland's birth, one of the workers on the family farm ran off with the wife of another worker, very emotional circumstances, and holed up in a house on the place. Eastland's uncle, quite young at the time and full of promise, went to the house unarmed to try and mediate the situation. The man killed him with a single shotgun blast. I think Eastland's name "Oliver" was this boy's name. No one would argue that it justified the intensity of his later racism, but perhaps it explains it to some extent. The tone of the article, even with deletions of excessive passages, is not NPOV. (MM)

Hey, does anyone of you know who wrote the article on Eastland, and mentioned Patricia Webb Robinson's analysis in the bibliography ? Cos this reference is incomplete, we have no idea where to find it ( i.e. thesis or publication ). Thanks for bringing more precision... (User: Alienor)

Another vote for deletion. This is getting ridiculous. Danny

I vote for letting people finally know the truth. What is your reason for not wanting to have truth stated ? user:H.J.

I'm sure you do. My quick search of Google shows Eastland to have been a vociferous opponent of civil rights and a proponent of the Jim Crow laws. That could be worth an article. His one speech on Germany is not. Danny

Another thing for a real article: Nixon made the ridiculous proposal in the midst of the Watergate affair, that Eastland listen to all the White House tapes and decide which ones Judge Sirica should be allowed to hear.

You know, user:H.J., if you'd just dress these things up with just a little bit of encyclopedic information, birth and death date, term in senate, legislation sponsored, you know, the kind of thing we expect to find in an encyclopedia, it might be less likely that people would object to one paragraph of you grinding your ax. Of course, in this case, the more people know about Eastland, the less likely they are to be impressed by one speech. Ortolan88

I'd be happy to state the truth. user:H.J., your contribution on James Eastland was a poor addition to Wikipedia. That's why it was deleted. Danny's reason for not wanting this stated is that Danny is polite. Olof

Hard to oppose a policy that did not exist. And which policy makers were Communists? --rmhermen

Danny, I wish you would slow down and give others (like me) a chance to read this article before you delete large amounts of text. I believe it preferable to NPOVify Eastland's remarks, and I also think you're being unfairly impatient with user:H.J.. Ed Poor

Removed from article:

Eastland is remembered for his vociferous opposition to the civil rights movement and support for the Jim Crow laws.

This needs a source, and it also needs to be changed from the passive voice. Who says he "vociferously" opposed the civil rights movement or supported Jim Crow laws? Please answer these questions when you put back this sentence (don't just revert).

Something like, "according to the Socialist Workers Party, Eastland opposed civil rights." Now that would be NPOV (assuming that's who said it). Ed Poor

No, Ed, I do not think I am being unfair with user:H.J.. I suggest you look at the history of this article to see her original contribution. It is essentially a quote from one speech he gave in the Senate. BFD. Rather than delete this page (and the other wonderful contribution she made today--6 paragraphs of some other guys speech), we took the road of redirecting and finding out a little something about the guy. Do a little search with Google. See what the sites that discuss him say. They do not mention his speech on Germany--they all mention his opposition to civil rights. Some of them even give quotes along the lines of "Segregation is here to stay," etc. One does not have to be a member of the Socialist Workers Party to regard that as being opposed to civil rights. Finally, this piece was only the last in a long history of attempts by user:H.J. to assert her POV in an extremely non-encyclopedic way. Enough is enough. Danny

Jeez, calm down, will ya? All I asked for was a source. If your googling has turned up multiple websites showing what racist this backwater jerk was, go ahead and nail him to the wall. As in, "Historian John Smith discusses Senator Eastland's 30-year campaign to deprive Negros of civil rights in his book, Rotten Redneck (ISBN 12345-234). See also . . ."

Try to remember that I'm not your opponent. I know nothing about Eastland except what you all tell me. But I'm asking for your strict adherence to the NPOV standard, even when you're right -- perhaps especially when you're right.

And what's the harm in letting user:H.J. quote this guy's speech? All right, so he was suspicious of Eisenhower. Balance it with Ambrose's rebuttal and be done with it.

I think we should put back everything of user:H.J.'s that was deleted. --Ed Poor

Sure, Ed. Let's start with restoring this bold assertion: "Many of the US policy makers were in time exposed as American Communists, and were silently let go by President Harry Truman." Now, are we going to quote lengthy passages from every Senator who made a speech about some controversial topic? Like I suggested, Ed, look at the history of the article. By the way, I hope you are not suggesting that every historical statement in every historical article must give a source with it. "Historian John Doe in his magnum opus Sexy Men of '76 says that George Washington was the first president of the United States." I don't think so. Danny

Thanks for checking the quote, Ed. Nevertheless, I don't think it should be added here. It really is vile. Danny

C'mon, it's the first vile thing I've found all day that really is true. Makes up for all the muck in the German POW camps. Besides, I think it's good for people to know how vociferously some people opposed civil rights. Your call. --Ed Poor

I say we keep it. When this article is fleshed out a little more, it will make exactly that point. As it stands now, it does seem like gratuitous use of offensive language, which is why I agree it is vile. The solution is not to remove it, but rather frame it so that it is more informative than ugly. Much as I despise spending even more time cleaning up after user:H.J., it would be productive here. Olof

If I were History Queen for a Day ...

Here is what I would add about Sen. Eastland:

Interestingly, there are numerous asides to Mississippi's civil rights story but perhaps none quite so compelling (and less known) as this:

Seven years before JFK was assassinated, the magnolia state's Sen. James O. Eastland met for the first time with Guy Banister, a controversial CIA operative and retired FBI agent in charge of the Chicago bureau.

Banister -- remember him as the man who "pistol-whipped" David Ferrie in Oliver Stone's film "JFK" -- was later linked to Lee Harvey Oswald and Mississippi's senator through Eastland's Senate Internal Security Subcommittee or SISS (sometimes called "SISSY").

The New Orleans Times-Picayune on March 23, 1956, reported that Robert Morrison, a former chief counsel for Sen. Joseph McCarthy's House Unamerican Activities Committee or HUAC, and Banister traveled to Greenwood, Mississippi, to confer personally with Senator Eastland for more than three hours. Describing the conference as "completely satisfactory," Morrison told the reporter that "Mr. Banister has complete liaison with the committee's staff which was the main object of our trip."

Apparently cozying up to Eastland and "SISSY" was Banister's goal. And it worked.

Known as a notorious political extremist who was later described as the impetus for James Garrison’s 1967-1970 Kennedy assassination probe, Banister earlier became a brief focus of Mississippi's secret spy agency, the Sovereignty Commission, when it was suggested Banister should be hired to set up an "even tighter" domestic spying system throughout the state.

A second Eastland operative, private investigator John D. Sullivan of Vicksburg, made this suggestion to the commission just months after the JFK assasination, according to released Sovereignty Commission records.

Former FBI agent Sullivan had worked under Banister (both inside the FBI and privately) and as a private self-employed investigator who often did work for hire for the Mississippi Sovereignty Commission; the private white Citizens Councils, of which he was an active member; and for SISS, as had Banister and Lee Harvey Oswald.

When Sullivan reportedly committed suicide following the assassination, Sovereignty Commission investigators tried to acquire his library and files, but most of his confidential files were either reportedly burned by his widow or they had been lent out, and she "could not remember" who had them, Sovereignty Commission files disclose.

Then some twenty-nine years later, in testimony before the Kennedy Assassination Records Review Board during a Dallas hearing on November 18, 1994, the late Senator Eastland was directly implicated in the president’s assassination by one of the author/theorists invited to testify.

“Lee Harvey Oswald was quite possibly an agent of the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee and he was doing the bidding of [Sen. Thomas J.] Dodd and Eastland and Morrison,” author John McLaughlin swore.

Documentation that could support or even discredit such assertions could perhaps be present in the Eastland archives at the University of Mississippi, but no objective scholar has been allowed to search these archives since the day they arrived on campus. Instead, Eastland's records were managed for years by a former associate and devoté who followed the papers from Washington, D.C. to Oxford.

Finally in 2005, after an unsuccessful Freedom of Information Act or FOIA request by this author, a historian was hired to organize the archives based in the James O. Eastland School of Law at Ole Miss. But there would still be a waiting period before any of the files could be viewed, according to the school's dean.

The plan was to release first all press releases, according to the historian who also confirmed that"many important files" were probably missing -- that the files looked “cleaned out.” (The Dean of the law school, when presented a FOIA for access to Eastland archives, asked while laughing if he could “just show the rejection letter written to the last person who asked for this information." Later it came back to this author that “people at Ole Miss were really angry” over the FOIA request.)

Notes

[1] “Banister, FBI Chief Since February, to Leave Post Nov. 30,” Chicago Daily Tribune, Nov 19, 1954, Part 2, Page 12. [2] Citation for this newspaper article (“NOTP, March 23, 1956, p. 1”) comes from the online Jerry P. Shinley Archive “Re: Jim Garrison and the SCEF Raids.” [3] William Davy, “Let Justice Be Done,” (Jordan Publication, May 12, 1999), 1. On the weekend of the assassination, Banister pistol-whipped his employee Jack Martin, after Martin accused him of killing Kennedy. Martin eventually spoke to authorities. [4] Sovereignty Commission documents SCR ID # 7-0-8-89-1-1-1 and SCR ID # 2-56-1-20-1-1-1. [5] Sovereignty Commission documents SCR ID # 99-36-0-2-1-1-1 SCR ID # 1-16-1-21-1-1-1, SCR ID # 1-26-0-5-2-1-1, SCR ID # 2-2-0-19-1-1-1, SCR ID # 1-24-0-11-1-1-1 [6] After the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, A. J. Weberman, a “Dylanologist,” “garbologist” and Kennedy conspiracist wrote that he received this communication from Sullivan's grandson, Jeremy Sullivan: "I was told that he commited suicide but my dad didn't think so. He told me there was an investigation and the FBI was involved. They deemed it suicide. The story I heard had changed depending on who told it, I believe that they had been out fishing all day and John Daniel had been drinking. After they got home, he was alone in his room and there was a gunshot and he was found dead." Also, Weberman stated that Jim Garrison had an undisclosed case against Sullivan in 1961. Per a “Memo for the Director” by Betsy Palmer on April 19, 1978, regarding the “HSCA.” From A.J. ajweberman and Michael Canfield, “Coup D'Etat in America, The CIA and the Assassination of John Kennedy,” (New York City, The Third Press, 1975) Nodule II. [7] Online minutes of testimony before the Assassination Records Review Board, November 18, 1994. Dallas, Texas. Testimony of John McLaughlin aka John Bevilaqua, Harvard University graduate and systems analyst, also a Kennedy assassination theorist. McLaughlin was testifying why he needed to see documents from HUAC and SISS. He had also requested military records of Wycliff P. Draper, head of the Draper Committees and Pioneer Fund. Mississippi had been the benefactor of Draper money in its fight against the Civil Rights Act of 1965 and in funding of private white academies per Sovereignty Commission reports. [8] Eastland’s name has also been associated with the murder of civil rights leaders Medgar Evers, Dr. Martin Luther King, U. S. Senator Robert Kennedy and with the mass murder at a U. S. Army base located in Mississippi of potentially 1,000 black soldiers during World War II. [9] The former Eastland aid has since retired.

So..Why can't I add this? Why is the "box locked" on this notorious racist?

Susan Klopfer http://themiddleoftheinternet.com 67.139.242.198 19:57, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

That's an intriguing tale. Like all additions, we need our contributions to summarize verifiable information in an NPOV manner, while avoiding original research. Has this story been covered in a magazine article? That'd be perfect, cause then we can just cite the article. A small detail: McCarthy was in the Senate and was not part of HUAC, which was a House committee. Lastly, the "box" isn't locked. Thanks, -Willmcw 22:01, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

"Has this story been covered in a magazine article"? Like what? Highlights? All of this story appears to be second sourced in a book, Where Rebels Roost, and heavily first sourced in this discussion. This is the standard of contributing to which wikipedia could improve it's reputation. Further, I don't see any NPOV issues. Eastland was a fascinating and repulsive man. It is of no dispute his disdain for commies and "niggers" (as he openly referred to black people). Seriously though, I think Susan should learn some wiki editing and include some of the above in the article. Fascinating stuff that is heavily footnoted. Please do contribute more to this article. Not a lot has been written about Eastland, but you seem to have gone into significant depth researching him. Share with us your research!

Note that the cited authors are notorious grassy-knoller nuts. 'Coup d'Etat'? Not much changed, if so. But I have not heard Eastland linked with the Grand Conspiracy before; no doubt THEY have been suppressing all the facts (g).24.23.195.135 (talk) 07:16, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Caro's comment

I recently finished a dissertation about James Eastland and Fannie Lou Hamer ("No Compromise: The Freedom Struggles of James O. Eastland and Fannie Lou Hamer" University of North Carolina, 2005), and I could find no evidence that Eastland ever said what Robert Caro had him say. I love Caro's "Master of the Senate" and I know he's a respected writer, but he's simply wrong on this one. His source does not check out, and there simply is no evidence that he uttered those words. Another speaker on the platform did make that comment, but Eastland did not. Of course, that does not mean Eastland may not have had similar sentiments, but as far as I can find he never expressed those particular words in public. Eastland was a racist, no doubt; he opposed all efforts to Jim Crow, no doubt; but that doesn't mean we should put words in his mouth. Chris Myers Asch

To expand on Chris Asch's remark: the disputed quote ("When in the course of human events...") is supposed to be from a speech that Eastland gave at a White Citizens Council rally in Montgomery. Caro's source for the quote is Stephen Oates' Let the Trumpet Sound, pages 91-92. But Oates is ambiguous on those pages:

Senator James Eastland of Mississippi ranted against the NAACP, and racist handbills circulated by the thousands: "When in the course of human events [...]"

Oates' own sources for the quote are a "Montgomery Diary" piece by Bayard Rustin in Liberation, pages 9-10, April 1956; and a February 11, 1956 article in the Montgomery Advertiser.

I don't have access to original copies of Liberation, but I checked Bayard Rustin's collected writings (Time on Two Crosses), which includes his Montgomery Diary pieces. Rustin writes about the passage that Caro quotes, but he attributes it (page 63) to a leaflet "distributed by unidentified individuals...at a meeting sponsored by the White Citizens Council." Similarly, I don't have access to the original Montgomery Advertiser from February 11, 1956; but the newspaper has put many of its articles about the Montgomery bus boycott online, including one from February 11, 1956 ("Throngs Pack Coliseum for Eastland's Address") that places Eastland at the rally but does not attribute the words to him.

I recently wrote to Caro and heard back from "Tracy Randall" -- his assistant, I think -- that "Mr. Caro has already made the changes for the next edition of the book."John G Bullock (talk) 15:34, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

More sources

Here are two more sources for the "Further Reading" section: Chris Myers Asch, “Reconstruction Revisited: James O. Eastland, the Fair Employment Practices Committee, and the Reconstruction of Germany, 1945-1946,” Journal of Mississippi History (Spring 2005) Chris Myers Asch, "No Compromise: The Freedom Struggles of James O. Eastland and Fannie Lou Hamer," (Ph.D. dissertation, University of North Carolina, 2005)

Thanks, Chris Myers Asch myerschris1973@yahoo.com

Underemphasized?

I thought that Eastland's anti-Communism activities weren't emphasized enough.

Also this statement: "Using his power as chairman of the Internal Security Subcommittee, he subpoenaed a number of employees of The New York Times, which was at the time taking a strong position on its editorial page that Mississippi should adhere to the Brown decision. The Times was not intimidated. Its January 5, 1956 editorial read in part . . . "

This is very pro Times and inaccurate. In July of 1955 they fired one copyeditor, Marvin L. Barnet, for his refusal to answer questions in front of the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee, I am sure they probably fired others. The Times was definitely "intimidated."

A mcmurray 05:04, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Harold Cox story

The anecdote about Eastland making a deal for Harold Cox by "giving" JFK Thurgood Marshall makes a great story, but it didn't happen. It couldn't have happened, timewise -- Cox had already been appointed by the time Marshall's appointment came up. The first source of this anecdoate (I believe) was Victor Navasky's book on the Kennedys; it has been repeated many times, despite having been refuted by Jack Bass in his book on southern politics. The persistence of the anecdote shows the inherent inertia within the historical profession -- too many historians simply rely on their predecessors without doing the research on their own.

This information is documented in my dissertation on Eastland and Fannie Lou Hamer.

Thanks, Chris Myers Asch

Both anecdotes have sufficiently reliable sources available to include. The Cox story has a law journal article and the Sidwell anecdote has a contemporaneous TIME magazine story. We can include information disputing both stories. Can you add a paragraph giving the information you've provded here? -Will Beback · † · 00:09, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

The reference that you cite for the Cox story is not original research and merely repeats the oft-told story. He cites the story without references; if you look at his footnotes, you will see that he cites only secondary sources as well. The same goes for almost every web reference -- it's like circular logic where everyone is citing each other as evidence that they are correct. The best work about the Cox-Eastland connection has been done by reporter Jack Bass -- see his "Transformation of Southern Politics." He notes that not only is the Cox-Marshall story untrue, Cox also was never the Law School roommate of Eastland. In fact, Eastland never went to law school. He did not even graduate from college -- he left to run for the state legislature.

What is going on here is basic sloppy research. One person makes an assertion that sounds true -- Eastland was undoubtedly a racist who used every devious means possible to undermine civil rights, so why wouldn't he make a deal about Cox? -- and then everyone else cites and re-cites that. No one looks into it because who cares? Who wants to defend Eastland?

I care because I care about accurate history. I have done as much research on Eastland as anyone to date, and I keep finding things that are simply made up. You don't have to be an Eastland fan (and I'm not -- read my dissertation) to want history to be fair and accurate. There are plenty of reality-based anecdotes that show Eastland's racism, so nobody needs to make any up.

Chris Myers Asch

The best thing then would be to add a paragraph describing what you just said. If we omit it entirely then another user will come along and re-add it. If we debunk it, or at least provide an alternate viewpoint, then NPOV is maintained. -Will Beback · † · 02:05, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Bias

"During the 1950s, Eastland was among many legislators who used an imagined threat of Communism for his own political agenda"

Imagined threat? How about real threat.

YankeeRoman (68.227.212.199 (talk) 23:44, 27 March 2008 (UTC))

Agree, Changed to 'exaggerated the real threat'.24.23.195.135 (talk) 07:21, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Eastland in Rhodesia

Eastland was quoted in a reliable printed source as making some patently racist remarks during his visit to Rhodesia c. 1967. Why was this removed, along with the documetation? I think is is relevant because he was trying to tone done his image in the 1960's, but was apparently hewing to the same old line when abroad. 95.146.138.235 (talk) 00:44, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

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